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Post by Curtis Lemansky (Run N Gun) on Dec 24, 2020 16:14:10 GMT -5
I’ll stick around for the season, but I think we need to address some of the ideas that were brought forward in this thread. It’s a good league, but there’s need for holes to filled Brian, in the light of how much everything has changed in NBA and the ideas thrown by gm's to improve gameplay here, maybe it is an idea to discuss some rule changes before the next season (maybe sometime around March?)
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New GM
Dec 24, 2020 18:23:35 GMT -5
Post by youngstar (Scorpions) on Dec 24, 2020 18:23:35 GMT -5
If there's a player on a bad NBA contract, you should think twice before signing him in VBA. And do your homework first (exhibit: Panthers and Boris Diaw) Sure, but aren't we at the mercy of the NBA teams? I could have a guy on a great deal... then that player gets extended on a stupid contract and I'm left stuck with them. Should there be a mechanism where we can walk away from those bad extension type deals? It's always been that NBA extensions are VBA extensions. That's part of the fun and uncertainty? Only way for this is if maybe if a newly-extended player is waived by a certain date, then the undesirable extension can be avoided (like how options on rookie years can be rejected)
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New GM
Dec 24, 2020 23:45:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stick (Disastercycle) on Dec 24, 2020 23:45:32 GMT -5
I'm all for changes. At least if they make sense. I'm actually confused by the "this is the way we always do it" argument considering how many changes have actually been made. Which actually leads to confusion.
If it makes sense, sure
But just for reference. There are reasons why the current things are there. For instance the paying a player twice if you sign them twice and cut them twice.
That was a "change" to solve a problem in the past
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Post by elks2 on Dec 25, 2020 0:19:14 GMT -5
I'm all for changes. At least if they make sense. I'm actually confused by the "this is the way we always do it" argument considering how many changes have actually been made. Which actually leads to confusion. If it makes sense, sure But just for reference. There are reasons why the current things are there. For instance the paying a player twice if you sign them twice and cut them twice. That was a "change" to solve a problem in the past Agreed, I don’t see the issue with the cut salaries. Don’t cut and resign people with shit contracts.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 5:19:09 GMT -5
Post by headliner (Halifax) on Dec 25, 2020 5:19:09 GMT -5
I'm all for changes. At least if they make sense. I'm actually confused by the "this is the way we always do it" argument considering how many changes have actually been made. Which actually leads to confusion. If it makes sense, sure But just for reference. There are reasons why the current things are there. For instance the paying a player twice if you sign them twice and cut them twice. That was a "change" to solve a problem in the past Agreed, I don’t see the issue with the cut salaries. Don’t cut and resign people with shit contracts. because it leads to stagnation. Teams get muddied down and thus less active. I’m fine with the contract staying on, but only once. And if another team picks up the player, they should come right off the books of the the team. it the issue was guys cycling through players with drops and pick ups then instead of bogging down the salaries and screwing people over for 4 years, just say: “No team can sign a player that has been dropped/bought out, to which they still owe salary to. “ There, no teams get harshly penalized and it stops abusive practices. Also, why do the exceptions disappear at the start of the season? What’s the negative of keeping them so teams can actually bid on guys above the min through out the year?
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 5:23:01 GMT -5
Post by headliner (Halifax) on Dec 25, 2020 5:23:01 GMT -5
Sure, but aren't we at the mercy of the NBA teams? I could have a guy on a great deal... then that player gets extended on a stupid contract and I'm left stuck with them. Should there be a mechanism where we can walk away from those bad extension type deals? It's always been that NBA extensions are VBA extensions. That's part of the fun and uncertainty? Only way for this is if maybe if a newly-extended player is waived by a certain date, then the undesirable extension can be avoided (like how options on rookie years can be rejected) Couldn’t another solution be: when a player signs an extension with his current NBA team, the VBA owner has the right to accept that extension, or decline it. If declined the player becomes a free agent during the end of his current VBA contract.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 5:38:01 GMT -5
Post by headliner (Halifax) on Dec 25, 2020 5:38:01 GMT -5
There are lots of things that don’t make sense though. example of a super small one: TPEs - TPEs are Traded Player exceptions and they have strict rules on how they are made and used in the NBA. In the VBA you don’t get TPEs from Trades, you get them from the Dispersal draft and they don’t work like TPEs at all. It’s really confusing when you are starting out. If the only way to receive them is in the Dispersal draft change their name to a DDE. another one is the paying a player multiple times on multiple teams. If I owe Bob 5/5/5 and another team signs him for the min, why is that contract not waived from the books but it is if the team signs him for 1.25 for example? makes zero sense. another one is the cap, no one has any idea what the cap figure is going to be until after free agency. Make the number a predictable number tied to the soft cap. Soft cap shouldn’t be arbitrary, not saying you would do this, but you whoever decides what it is could easily decide to increase or keep it the same, if it were advantageous to their own free agency. make it predictable no one should be thinking they need to cut 15 million and find out they could have added 50.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 8:18:09 GMT -5
Post by stick (Disastercycle) on Dec 25, 2020 8:18:09 GMT -5
There are lots of things that don’t make sense though. example of a super small one: TPEs - TPEs are Traded Player exceptions and they have strict rules on how they are made and used in the NBA. In the VBA you don’t get TPEs from Trades, you get them from the Dispersal draft and they don’t work like TPEs at all. It’s really confusing when you are starting out. If the only way to receive them is in the Dispersal draft change their name to a DDE. another one is the paying a player multiple times on multiple teams. If I owe Bob 5/5/5 and another team signs him for the min, why is that contract not waived from the books but it is if the team signs him for 1.25 for example? makes zero sense. another one is the cap, no one has any idea what the cap figure is going to be until after free agency. Make the number a predictable number tied to the soft cap. Soft cap shouldn’t be arbitrary, not saying you would do this, but you whoever decides what it is could easily decide to increase or keep it the same, if it were advantageous to their own free agency. make it predictable no one should be thinking they need to cut 15 million and find out they could have added 50. Technically, it's a Taken Player Exception. It's always been for losing a player to expansion or dispersal. On the hard cap, I'm all for (and was when we've discussed in the past) making it earlier. The reason it is at the start of the season is because that's the point when nba teams have signed and you can find their payroll. And since it's tied to that, that was why that was decided, also why you can always have a general idea of what the number will be.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 9:07:17 GMT -5
Post by headliner (Halifax) on Dec 25, 2020 9:07:17 GMT -5
Also, I hope this doesn’t feel like a piling on of you, it’s not in the slightest. I’ve basically been the core piece running another league that a lot of us are in, and I understand it’s a lot of work on your part with not a lot of thanks, and a lot of angry sounding posts, that feel directed at you, but aren’t necessarily. Your work is greatly appreciated.
My suggestion would be a GM meeting at the end of the season. It’s been great for my other league. Allows people to voice their concerns and suggestions before we roll over to the new season. So all new rules get implemented right away and not forgotten over the course of a year.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 9:12:05 GMT -5
Post by Curtis Lemansky (Run N Gun) on Dec 25, 2020 9:12:05 GMT -5
There are lots of things that don’t make sense though. example of a super small one: TPEs - TPEs are Traded Player exceptions and they have strict rules on how they are made and used in the NBA. In the VBA you don’t get TPEs from Trades, you get them from the Dispersal draft and they don’t work like TPEs at all. It’s really confusing when you are starting out. If the only way to receive them is in the Dispersal draft change their name to a DDE. another one is the paying a player multiple times on multiple teams. If I owe Bob 5/5/5 and another team signs him for the min, why is that contract not waived from the books but it is if the team signs him for 1.25 for example? makes zero sense. another one is the cap, no one has any idea what the cap figure is going to be until after free agency. Make the number a predictable number tied to the soft cap. Soft cap shouldn’t be arbitrary, not saying you would do this, but you whoever decides what it is could easily decide to increase or keep it the same, if it were advantageous to their own free agency. make it predictable no one should be thinking they need to cut 15 million and find out they could have added 50. Technically, it's a Taken Player Exception. It's always been for losing a player to expansion or dispersal. On the hard cap, I'm all for (and was when we've discussed in the past) making it earlier. The reason it is at the start of the season is because that's the point when nba teams have signed and you can find their payroll. And since it's tied to that, that was why that was decided, also why you can always have a general idea of what the number will be. How about setting the hard cap something in relation to the soft cap? Soft cap + 100 mil? or Soft cap * 1,5 ?
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Post by elks2 on Dec 25, 2020 9:36:30 GMT -5
Agreed, I don’t see the issue with the cut salaries. Don’t cut and resign people with shit contracts. because it leads to stagnation. Teams get muddied down and thus less active. I’m fine with the contract staying on, but only once. And if another team picks up the player, they should come right off the books of the the team. it the issue was guys cycling through players with drops and pick ups then instead of bogging down the salaries and screwing people over for 4 years, just say: “No team can sign a player that has been dropped/bought out, to which they still owe salary to. “ There, no teams get harshly penalized and it stops abusive practices. Also, why do the exceptions disappear at the start of the season? What’s the negative of keeping them so teams can actually bid on guys above the min through out the year? The issue is we had Teams cutting massive contracts and working shady deals to have someone sign the players and make those cut contracts vanish. You can argue that it doesn’t matter but it does. That’s why the current rule was put in place. I do think there is way to make it work, just needs discussed.
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New GM
Dec 25, 2020 13:30:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by oldno7 (Rockafellas) on Dec 25, 2020 13:30:54 GMT -5
How about cut salary being tradeable?
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Post by stick (Disastercycle) on Dec 26, 2020 7:43:37 GMT -5
How about cut salary being tradeable? Now this, I like this
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New GM
Dec 26, 2020 11:58:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ucf (Air Republic) on Dec 26, 2020 11:58:10 GMT -5
How about cut salaries expiring in 2 years?
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New GM
Dec 26, 2020 13:32:15 GMT -5
Post by sly (Team Helltrack) on Dec 26, 2020 13:32:15 GMT -5
First off - definitely a healthy discussion. Secondly, agreed with the sentiment here. The fact that this league is this longstanding is all on Brian's shoulders. It's pretty tough to maintain an active league... and this league has had it moments of hyper activity, some controversy, and some slower spots. But, despite all of this, the fact that it remains mostly competitive and alive, is the work put in to maintain it. It has its flaws, for sure, but - as Jordan said - some of its quirks can add to the strategy of the league. And the changes made so far have been well thought out and ARE working really well. On changes, I also propose:
- Link the soft cap to the NBA hard cap to add some certainly here and room for planning - I actually propose not allowing salary to be removed once that player is picked up as we've had this issue before, and trades get negotiated to pick up dead salary. It's a quick and easy trigger for a new manager or one going 'all in' to pull. I'd rather be cautious here. - I prefer the existing TPE rule - not carrying over into the season as by the trade deadline these become too much of an asset, IMO. But changing the name, to prevent confusion, I agree with.
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